Whisked away by the history and stories of her hometown, Natasha Fernandes is collecting the blocks of Goan, Christian history as a curator at the Museum of Christian Art.
Her work has made way for some of the most sought-after and prestigious statues to be housed at MOCA! Find out how Natasha went from winning Mando festival goa to curating and working for a museum! How did being fluent in the Portuguese language help her get a job? And did the Goan government find the remains of Queen Ketevan?
Tune in to find out!
Travel tip: If you are looking for a peek into the past, visit Augustinian ruins, a UNESCO world heritage site!
Produced by Aishwarya Javalgekar
Sound edit by Kshitij Jadhav
Brought to you by Bound, a company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social platforms for updates on this podcast or take a look at their other podcasts.
Hosted by Clyde D’Souza. He is a creative director who has worked in TV, print, and digital. His book Susegad: The Goan Art Of Contentment captures Goa through conversations, memories, stories, recipes and much more. He lives between Mumbai and Goa and lives the Susegad lifestyle every day! Follow him on Instagram @clydedsouzaauthor.
Whisked away by the history and stories of her hometown, Natasha Fernandes is collecting the blocks of Goan, Christian history as a curator at the Museum of Christian Art.
Her work has made way for some of the most sought-after and prestigious statues to be housed at MOCA! Find out how Natasha went from winning Mando festival goa to curating and working for a museum! How did being fluent in the Portuguese language help her get a job? And did the Goan government find the remains of Queen Ketevan?
Tune in to find out!
Travel tip: If you are looking for a peek into the past, visit Augustinian ruins, a UNESCO world heritage site!
Produced by Aishwarya Javalgekar
Sound edit by Kshitij Jadhav
Brought to you by Bound, a company that helps you grow through stories. Follow us @boundindia on all social platforms for updates on this podcast or take a look at their other podcasts.
Hosted by Clyde D’Souza. He is a creative director who has worked in TV, print, and digital. His book Susegad: The Goan Art Of Contentment captures Goa through conversations, memories, stories, recipes and much more. He lives between Mumbai and Goa and lives the Susegad lifestyle every day! Follow him on Instagram @clydedsouzaauthor.
Clyde D'Souza 00:07
Welcome to say God stories from Guam, where I glide de Souza take you deep into gua beyond the beaches and help you live and love the SUSE God lifestyle, no matter where you are. A hill from where Afonso de Albuquerque looked over the mandovi River and order the chapel to be built the imposing ruins of the Church of St. Augustine on a holy hill and a museum within a 17th century convent of Santa Monica. This is the Museum of Christian art go out there I'm talking about the Moca as it's popularly known is oozing with history and culture. It's home to unique Indian influence Christian art and gua from Asare, Claude Iris statue of Our Lady to a collection of some of the objects which are over 500 years old. My guest today is Natasha Fernandez, the awesome curator of MOCA. Natasha has trained with prominent museums in Portugal and is currently leading all the programs at MOCA. Welcome, Natasha, and thank you for coming on to cigar stories from our podcast.
01:11
Thank you, Clyde for having me on this podcast.
Clyde D'Souza 01:14
Great. It's really nice to have you Natasha. And I remember attending the seminar recently and the museum was completely alive. It didn't feel like a museum. It just felt more like a really happening. Youthful, filled with energy space. So that's awesome.
01:29
Thank you. I think the youthful team that is around at MOCA is doing a wonderful job and your experience there was just something that we do and we try to do every day at MOCA.
Clyde D'Souza 01:44
Awesome. So now before we get into the whole, you know, museum and historic site about it first I want to talk about where you stay, right? Because I like to give the listeners a feel of where my guests are from. So can you tell us where in Goa you're from and maybe describe your surroundings a
01:58
bit. I'm from Talladega in not go up. That is the Swati is the Toluca and it's a beautiful village. In fact, my house overlooks the fields. And I live there with my parents and my husband and my kids. But I also sometimes Live With My in laws and she Callie again another beautiful village and they our house overlooks the river some very, very privileged.
Clyde D'Souza 02:26
Wow, you got one I was overlooking fields and other one overlooking the river. You're living the dream life. And then you go to work at MOCA. Yes. So beautiful. Awesome. All right. So now coming to the museum, the Museum of Christian art as it's called, or as people know it as MOCA. For me, I think when I saw it, it's not just a museum, but a location that's just loaded and loaded with layers of history, right. I mean, it's situated in all GWA or Well, agua as it's known. It's home to all goes home to so many world heritage sites like the Church of St. Augustine, or the Basilica of Bom, Jesu. And a lot of people who are maybe not from Goa, maybe even some people who are from Guam are not aware of the difference between what we call old gua and new gua right? There is sometimes even confused by these by these terms. So you want to just tell us a little bit about maybe what is old Goa and new Goa, so to speak.
03:23
Okay, so old Goa and why it's called Old coalesced. The Portuguese arrived in Goa, they entered this place that we today called Old Goa, but they call it sedap the Goa and they made it their capital. And they were there for a couple of centuries before it got to a state where they could no longer function from there because of the sanitation hygienic conditions, the epidemics and the plagues that were constantly attacking the city. So they decided to move to Penn gym. And they called it Nava gua pendulum and the city which they left came to be called Value go old Goa. That's how this place has got its name old Goa.
Clyde D'Souza 04:04
Right? Yeah, I think a lot of people just this wonder what is old Goa? And why is it called Old? gwass? So, yeah, thanks for sharing that. And I think it's a maybe at that time it was it was quite far away. But But Olga also overlooks the on Mondovi. And panjang also is on the banks of the mandovi. So, right now, as we see it, it's not too far away. But maybe in those times, it was it was kind of far right.
04:26
Yes. Now, it's just 10 kilometers, we do it in 15 minutes, maybe the drive to old go off from Pancham is is easily done right. But way back in the past it must have taken them maybe a good half a day or a little less than half a day to get across to Pantip.
Clyde D'Souza 04:47
Yeah, I'm sure I remember driving down and you know, approaching Moca and when you take that little you know, left off the highway and then you take this looping Lane down and then you just you're just struck by this tower. This Singler tower made I think all of laterite only this column, which is now the ruins of the Church of St. Augustine. And it's it's really striking. And I mean, a lot of people don't know this, but it's been used in many movies like Singam, for instance, right. Now, can you tell us a little bit about just particularly that site.
05:18
So on the holy hill, there are several monuments which still stand. But the Augustinian monastery, which was built in the late 16th century, gradually crumbled somewhere in the late 19th century. So while it was built in 1595, and was a thriving monastery for the Augustinians, who lived there, in 1835, there was a Abolishment on religious orders in Portugal and all the colonies. Oh, and so all the religious had to flee, or go underground, and all these monasteries and convinced him to be abandoned. And like it would happen in any of our houses, if we don't live in it for some time, or we don't care for it, it will start to deteriorate and gradually collapse. And I think that is how the Augustinian monastery also gradually crumbled. And I think in 1930, or 1931, the facade which was standing till then came down, and what remained was the single tower of the church. And that is what we see today. Of course, a lot of conservation efforts have gone into maintaining this tower and conserving this tower so that it still stands today.
Clyde D'Souza 06:34
Yeah, I mean, it's quite a fascinating place, when when you just walk around, you just kind of feel the presence of something that was magnificent. And that was built with a lot of love and care. But now obviously, it's you know, it's in ruins. But you can see so many, you know, stones, and you can see the kind of the rooms that they had made all of this, I remember walking around there, and I think people are still finding a few artifacts around. I mean, I think some someone found something.
06:59
So there has been major excavations that took place in the later part of the 20th century. And that was, in fact, a joint effort of the Georgian government who were looking for the remains of Queen Canavan, who was who's one of the our patrons in in Georgia, and the Indian government under the Archaeological Survey of India, also, you know, to undertook the excavations, and it was a long time, so they gradually excavated the whole site. And we are very fortunate, in fact, today, we are walking through the Augustinian ruins, and we are seeing an excavated site. So there's so much of history that we find there, you will find pieces of the facade, the stone of the facade over there. And it tells you a story of the centuries gone by, we have an object in the museum, which is the marble relief sculpture of the Holy Trinity, which Mr. Percival neurona, who was a former committee member of the museum, he once told me when he saw the piece in the mail, he was walking with me in the museum, and he told me, I found this piece in the 1950s in the ruins. Wow. And I took it, I cleaned it, and I and I offered it to the to the cathedral. It was the time before the museum was set up. And no sooner the museum was set up, he suggested that this be one of the pieces in the museum. So that's how it came to be in the museum, a stunning piece, because it's a beautiful depiction of the Holy Trinity, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, surrounded by clouds and angels floating in the clouds. It's very beautiful.
Clyde D'Souza 08:46
Yeah, amazing. I mean, and you know, what I find great about Morocco, especially, is that there's not just the museum, but there is also these historic sites. Now, the other historic site over there is, is when you go up the slope and you pass the museum and you go up the slope, you reach the picturesque church of Our Lady of the Rosary, right and from where you can see the mandovi flowing peacefully. And right now, it looks all peaceful, but I guess about 400 500 years ago, somewhere around 1510 are found. So they are all Beaucaire came there and there was this battle between him and I think other Shah, and then he ordered the first chapel, I think in what we built over here, which is now the church of Our Lady of the Rosary, please feel free to fact check me on this, but is that right and you know, and then what is this chapel and what is the architecture of it? So this
09:35
chapel, as you rightly said, like it is the point from where foster care watched the his troops fight against the troops of the Adil Shah, and they were victorious in that three conquest of Goa in November of 1510. And he ordered for this chapel to be built Lady of the Rosary and special architecture characteristic of this church is that it is built in the manual in style. King Manuel was the king of Portugal who was one who encouraged the seafarers to go and you know, explore the seas and give the impetus to discover the new lands. So there are many architectural elements in the manual in style, which have things connected to the navigation or to the seas. So there is like a rope, intertwined rope around the doorway of a lady of rosary, which is identified as a manual in style of architecture. So that's one of the elements that I can directly point out to. Also, it's a very beautiful and plain church. It has no it doesn't have too much of gilding work on it. The aesthetic is very simple, yet beautiful.
Clyde D'Souza 10:55
That's fascinating what you just said about the church of Our Lady of the Rosary and the fact that it has so much of its own history behind it, and I didn't know that it had all these nautical elements to it. So that's what I think I find great about Moca is that it's not just the museum, but you're just looking at all of these heritage sites, and does all of this snow come under UNESCO world heritage sites.
11:16
So Olga is part of the UNESCO World Heritage Site and these monuments on the holy hill of course, are cared for and looked after the Agustin monastery by the Archaeological Survey of India. Also our lady of rosary is looked after by the Archaeological Survey of India. And then you have the Convent of Santa Monica, which is a state protected monument. And it is of course, property of the Archdiocese of Goa. And one part of the convent is run as an institute for nuns, which is the institute martyred they it's an institution for higher education, finance, so they come to do their courses in theology and philosophy. And you have mocha in the other part of the convent, which uses the church of Santa Monica and what was earlier the choir area of the church.
Clyde D'Souza 12:10
Okay, wow. Okay, now coming to the actual museum, which you said is housed within the Convent of Santa Monica. Right. So one of the things that I felt when I walked in, the first thing that hit me is that wow, this is like, you know, international standard, it's very global. It felt very, it has a really nice, minimal, airy look to it, just walking through it, you know, just made you feel like, okay, this is a place that you can kind of, you know, enjoy walking through. And I think that one of the pieces that I think we have to talk about is, you know, the ivory statue of our lady who's clad in a sari. Right. And I think that's like one of the main things which brings out this influence of India, especially on on Christian art. So can you tell us a little bit about this piece.
12:52
This is a very, very special piece in the museum, of course, because you see, the Virgin Mary, draped in a sari and standing on a lotus and has such strong resemblance is to a Hindu goddess. But there's also the Christian iconic graphic elements that you will find if you look very closely, which is the crescent moon, just above the lotus. And then above her head, you'll see the dove of the Holy Spirit, which are Christian iconographic representations seen, usually with the Virgin Mary. So that tells us that she is the Virgin Mary. But such strong Indian influences that you'll see in this piece is very special. This was made, I think, in the early parts of the 20th century. And it has a very interesting story on how it was found by Father shoki Loyola Pereira who, in fact, donated it to the museum. He had gone for his higher studies in the seminary of Cooney. When he went into his room that was assigned to him, he found this image of the Virgin Mary, and he went, and he handed it over to the rector of the seminary saying this must have belonged to someone who was in the room before me. And the rector turned around to him and said, but there was nobody in the room before you. Wow. Purely divine it remained with him for many years. And somewhere in the early 2000s, when the museum moved from Russia to Santa Monica in old Goa, he offered this piece to the to the museum, and it's so special because today, all of us can appreciate and enjoy this beautiful image of the Virgin Mary.
Clyde D'Souza 14:44
Yeah, it's really quite a striking, beautiful and it's called Nirmala matar, right. Yes. Well, yeah. It's it has like the softness about it. And, and the best part about it is that nobody knows who is the original sculptor, right. Yes. Yeah. So that's fascinating. It is,
15:00
like in many of the pieces in the museum collection, we don't know who the artists were. But whoever they were, they were ancestors. And they were, most of them were from Guam and the surrounding areas. And really, they were very, very talented. We can see that through the museum collection, and also through the, through the art that we see in our churches in our homes. It talks about our ancestors who are highly skilled.
Clyde D'Souza 15:29
Yeah, not only that, and the other thing, I mean, I'm glad that you brought this up, because, you know, now whenever I look at, like, all of these pieces, especially, you know, older ones, and we talk about our ancestors and their artistry, and I can just imagine like, you know, 400 500 years ago, an artist or a sculptor, you know, working with very basic tools, very rudimentary tools, perhaps in what was probably hot weather, there is no AC around, right? And maybe he's just working on this piece for months, maybe a year, maybe sometimes five years. So I always find this really fascinating because today, we have a lot of tools, we have a lot of conveniences, but everything looks very bland, and there seems to be some lacking of devotion or something that's that goes into an art piece or even a functional piece, because I remember now at the MOCA, I can I saw this candle stand? I think it's it's quite I think it was quite a large candle stand. And while a candle stand is like a functional artifact, it was really beautiful as well. Do you know which piece I'm talking about? Natasha, I can't recall the name.
16:31
I think it is. If you're saying it's a candle stand, it must be the Pascall candle stand, which is the Easter candle stand. carved wooden? Standard stand? Yes, absolutely.
Clyde D'Souza 16:45
I think it's just one wooden piece, which has been carved right? Yeah. Yeah. So that so that's, that's the thing. I mean, you know, it's it's just it was a functional thing. But it's just, they just make it so much more beautiful. And do you remember if any other pieces like this, which again, you don't? I mean, I'm sure most of them we don't know the origins of but can you tell us a little bit about a couple of other pieces like this?
17:06
There are so many like these, but I think one that you really cannot miss when you enter the space is the tabernacle monstrance which is this large board, which is perched on the globe? Oh, yeah, I
Clyde D'Souza 17:24
remember that. Yes.
17:25
So that is something that you can't really miss. It is such a unique piece. It's one of its kind in the whole world. And it was made for the Convent of Santa Monica in the early 17th century. It then moved out when the convent was abandoned in the 19th century, it moved to the cathedral, and came back to its original home gradually, when the museum moved to Santa Monica. How it has found its home again is a very interesting story by itself.
Clyde D'Souza 17:57
Wow. Great. Yeah. Okay. Natasha, can you tell us a little bit about your background? I mean, as a kid, were you always like, you know, fascinated with with history and with monuments or heritage sites? How the hell did you, you know, become curator of this historical museum. So tell us a bit about your journey
18:15
fell, I never planned to join a museum and work in a museum. But I was always very fascinated by monuments by art, by culture, going culture, I was always exposed to it, I think thanks to my father, who used to take me for every cultural program that they would be in Calais Academy when I was young child, whether it was the Mundo festival, or whether it was the TR, I would be exposed to all all of GWAS culture, anything that was organized within pendulum I think, because I was, you know, living in pendulum. So I was very exposed to a lot of the gun culture and loved listening to the man Lord's loved singing the mando I had an opportunity to also sing in the Mundo festival during my growing up years when I was in St. Xavier's College in Maps. And of course, being part of, of, of the group that would win the first place, or every year, it was really a privilege. So I think, you know, being immersed in go and culture and enjoying history as a subject right from my childhood, gradually in the museum field. In fact, my passion for history and knowing Portuguese was another criteria, in fact, when the opportunity to work in this museum came up, and the reason being is the person who would be selected would have to undergo a training in in Portugal and we were looking for somebody with some familiarity with the language because you If you had to go and live in that country for a certain number of months, you would need to be able to at least converse in that language when you went there. So I think that was also an advantage because I learned Portuguese in school. But also my parents spoke at home. So that facilitated the whole journey. I mean, who would have thought, you know, like learning Portuguese in school would have helped me secure a job in
20:31
a museum, sometimes, yes, go for languages, yes, never
20:36
often languages. So I think a combination of knowing my passion for history and knowing the language, Portuguese language helped me get into the museum field. And after I joined the museum, of course, it's been a lot of hard work. And I've grown with the, with the museum. I mean, the transformation of this museum over the last few years, was a long time in the making. It was a dream, you know, to get to the stage that we are now and of course, to still do better than then this is, well, we cannot stop dreaming. So there are so many plans for the future. So many things that we are currently doing that needs a lot of effort every day is a challenge. But I think that's what makes it exciting to work in the museum.
Clyde D'Souza 21:26
Yeah, and I think you're doing a wonderful job. And now another thing that I wanted to ask you is like, can you tell us a little bit maybe about the inner workings of curating a museum that's on UNESCO's World Heritage Site, it has so many historical monuments all around it, the other like, you know, rules or some standards that you need to adhere to what exactly is like the job of a curator like in a day, if you are to say,
21:49
well, in a small museum like Mocha, where we have only a few of us in the team, we have to Don many caps, put on many hats, and multitask all the time. So we are not doing just one specific job, or we don't fit into only one role, but we do many things. So we multitask, coming to curation. So this recent intervention, saw as collaborating with the gold banking Foundation who have been associated with the museum right from the time that the museum was set up in Russia. And, in fact, when I was selected as the curator, I was doing my internship at the gold banking Museum, and it was through the Gulbenkian Foundation that I was sent for a training there. So association with the Gulbenkian Foundation is really very long. And they came into work with us on this project, and helped us with their technical expertise in the organizing and refurbishing this museum. And a very good architect who was on their team helped us with a new museological layout. So they are understanding their experience helped us a lot in rearranging the space. And just to give you a little bit of a understanding, what we have done in the space now is we have created sections. So you'll see all the paintings are grouped together, all the wooden sculptures are together, all the ivories are together. And then when you look at the wooden sculptures, for example, you will see the earliest ones. And gradually, as you're walking, you will find, you know, 17th century 18th century 19th century, so you're looking at the evolution of the art, how it evolved, how this sculptors must have added on new elements in the motifs, the Indian elements in the motifs. So that is how the curation has been done now, sections all the textiles grouped together to give the visitor and understanding of how each of these materials was worked upon over the course of centuries of several centuries.
Clyde D'Souza 24:05
So it's like a progressive timeline through sections that you go through, right. Yes. And I think another thing that plays a lot of importance is maybe the arena's and the light that that it all has, you know, I mean, it feels like a very nice airy place to kind of walk through and I think light also plays an important role in all of this.
24:24
Yes, natural light. Of course, the building has a lot of natural light coming in through the windows, it gives it a airiness. Also, when you enter the space, you're not hit with 1000 objects, you just see a few so that minimalist approach when you enter and then gradually as you walk around the object start to come alive in each section that you you walk through the collection has remained the same. Sometimes people ask us, oh, there were so many objects and we say yes, you just need to walk through the different sections and you will find them all It's just the way it has been arranged. Now the layout,
Clyde D'Souza 25:04
right? Yeah, you just said that the mute that the objects come alive. So I want to ask you in the night that they actually come alive, like the Night at the Museum.
25:12
That is something that we love to do once and see whether they really come alive. But my very special time at the museums, in fact, you know, when the sun goes down, on some occasions when we do have an event or a concert, and you are there later than the normal museum hours, which is otherwise we close the museum at five. And if you're there beyond five, and the sun is already set, and the lighting in the museum is all on and turned on, it is very special. I think, you know, like I said earlier, objects just come alive. It's very, very special. It's very beautiful inside the museum in the later part of the evening.
Clyde D'Souza 25:52
Yeah, no, I think the museum literally does come alive with all of the other things that you are also doing just beyond like you said that there are many hats that everybody wears, and I guess you're also wearing many hats, like you're not just a curator, but I guess you're also an event organizer. And there are tools that are being done in collaboration with so many different kinds of people. Right. So I mean, and I was like, honored. And it was my privilege, honestly to be a part of the seminar that you guys had recently. So you want to just tell us a little bit more about the kinds of events also that happened at MOCA. So we
26:23
do many events, many activities, the museum was closed for renovations for the from 2017 to 2020. And of course, we went through the pandemic, so we really couldn't do much. But we started you know, doing things online. So we started a session called the heritage hour where we would call upon a resource person in the art sector or the history sector and to talk about gua or any aspect connected to the museum. This we started during the pandemic. And as we open the museum, the heritage hours, which were virtual started becoming physical sessions. We also have sessions for children online and offline. And events like the tourism seminar that we had. Also, we do Heritage Tours, we started with the holy hill tour, which we call retracing Monsanto. We do it once a month, on the second Saturday of the month. With architect Noah Fernandez. We've been doing this for the last several years, just because we want to bring about awareness among our community about the monuments on the holy hill, because everybody's familiar with the Basilica. And with the cathedral. Yeah, not more than that. They don't know a lot. Maybe they know the Agustin tower, you know that it stands there. But what about its history? And why did it collapse? And what are these other monuments on the holy hill? What is this flying buttress outside the Santa Monica, those arches. So these are the kinds of stories we share. And Noah with his expertise, and being a conservation architect, he adds so much more information during these tours that it helps visitors are not only from GWA, but others who joined us on these holy hill tours to to know more about these spaces. We also do concerts in the church of Santa Monica, which the museum restored with the support of the Department of Archaeology some years back. So the sacred music concerts that have been happening over the last several years and our flagship concert, which is Carol's on the Hill, which happens every year in the month of December, on the 19th of December, last year and this year as well sheduled to happen on the 19th of December, where besides having a choral group of more than one choral group come to perform on the holy hill, we also have a pop up. So not necessarily Christmas products but any kind of handcrafted products that people in the community are making we identify these people a couple of months before get them to come on board to to be part of this pop up and just supporting the community you know, reaching out to them and making them also feel part of MOCA, I think that is what mochas whole objective is, you know, make bringing the community together to not only to come as a one time visitor to see the permanent collection, but to keep coming back, whether it's for a lecture, whether it's for a concert, whether it's for a pop up. So this is the whole idea
Clyde D'Souza 29:52
that it's not just like a you know, like a passive place, but it's an interactive and active place with so many things happening. And yeah, I wanted to ask skew in particular about, you know, the Christmas program and the carols on the hill, it just sounds so magical. You know, I mean, that's the only word that comes to our mind. So can you just tell me like, Where exactly does it happen? Does it happen with the backdrop being the St. Augustine tower? Or does it happen up at the, you know, Lady of the Church of rosary? Does it happen there? Where does it happen?
30:20
He started having Carol's on the hill in the in 2019. And it started as a small initiative at MOCA with the team thinking that it would be nice to get the community together to listen to the carrots, somebody's little kids who were, you know, called the choir of angels. So we invited this choir to sing in the church of Santa Monica. And we invited the nuns who are studying at the institute within the convent to also perform. And we invited a choir group from old gwoc, the cathedral to also perform. So we have three groups singing in the church of Santa Monica, it was a magical evening. The next year, we couldn't do much because it was during the COVID times it was difficult, nobody was moving around. But last year, we put in a lot of effort to revive Carol's on the hill. And we did it as part. Just in the convent of Santa Monica in the church, we had the concert, and we had the pop up in the Mocha courtyard, but this year, it will be in another chapel on the holy hill. It's called the royal chapel of St. Anthony. So a new venue for the concert. And we will also be using the stairway between the Augustinian monastery and the Convent of Santa Monica. And that will be the space for another part of the event which is called the angels contest. So we'll be doing things all around the hill this year, which is going to be really exciting and special for our for our community as well to explore the different parts of the hill during the afternoon and evening. On the 19th of December,
Clyde D'Souza 32:02
save the date.
32:04
Save the date.
Clyde D'Souza 32:05
Great. Okay, so Natasha, my next segment is a really fun segment. A lot of guests enjoy it. It's called the ouzo round. It's the rapid fire round where I just throw these quick questions at you. And you have to try and give me quick. Maybe one word one line kind of answers. Yeah, so we set for those around. Yes. Great. Okay, here we go. If there was one museum in the world, other than MOCA, that one should visit according to you. What would that be?
32:31
It could be the CSM V F. Chatrapati. Shivaji Maharaj. Bus to Sandra Alia in movie.
Clyde D'Souza 32:39
Oh, wow. Nice. Next question. If someone had to visit the museum for like five minutes, and the reason I'm asking you this is because this actually happened to me. Believe it or not, I was at the Louvre in Paris. And for some weird reason, we reached literally 10 minutes. I don't know how this happened. But literally 10 minutes before it was going to shut. Yeah, I mean, just imagine that. So we had to run across the Louvre. So now I want to ask you this, if one had to visit the museum for five minutes, which one should not by the way, but what would be the one artifact that they should run across and see at the at the MOCA?
33:13
I think the Do not miss objects in the museum is the is the tabernacle monstrance in the shape of a pelican. That is the object. Yes.
Clyde D'Souza 33:23
Yeah. And I think that whole center stage right. I remember I think when you walk in, that's the first thing that you see at MOCA if I'm not mistaken, yes,
33:29
it is the first thing that you see, but when we do a guided tour, that is the last of
Clyde D'Souza 33:34
your last. Yeah, true. No, no, you saved the best for the last year. Yes. Unless you have five minutes.
33:40
Yes. Then you go straight to the Pelican tabernacle monsters?
Clyde D'Souza 33:44
Yeah. What's one natural golden Heritage Site? that fascinates you?
33:48
I don't think I can give you one natural site Heritage Site. I think for me, it's the river. Okay, the rivers tell us so many stories. So it's
Clyde D'Souza 34:00
the river. Any particular river or just any just a river?
34:03
Just the river? Wow. Okay.
Clyde D'Souza 34:05
Yeah, that's good enough. All right. Now, I think that, you know, one of the ways that one can kind of fall in love with a place or its people, it's obviously through the mother tongue to the language. So what's your favorite golden phrase or term that you like to use?
34:19
I think my favorite comment is the word guru. Yeah, it is much more powerful than saying thank you.
Clyde D'Souza 34:29
Right? Yeah. And a lot of guns use it. And yeah, I've used it many times as well in my book also. So yeah, it's a good phrase, and it means God bless you all, you know. Yes. Yeah. what life brings you say, God, I know that's a loaded term today. But yeah.
34:45
And you want me to answer this in one word?
Clyde D'Souza 34:47
No, go ahead. You connected you can take a line.
34:49
If I've to answer in one word. I would say family nice while it you know, we feel oh, there's such a lot that happens in our family. There's so much that we have to give our time to families but it also something that brings us peace and contentment. So for me to say God, this family being with my family, yes.
Clyde D'Souza 35:13
Wow. Beautifully. Well put great. I can see Natasha why you are the curator of MOCA. I mean, you did such a great job. I felt like I was literally right now at MOCA walking around, it was like an audio tool that I got. And and all the additional insights that I didn't know about. So that's amazing as well. And yeah, like you said, you know, it's someplace that you'd want to visit again and again, yeah, thank you for taking me through this. 500 years of go in history and fascinating stories really was super and I look forward to being there again. So thank you for coming on the cigar stories from Google podcasts and Maga Sue.
35:48
Thank you so much, Clyde for having me. No castle.
Clyde D'Souza 35:53
Hope you enjoyed this episode of SUSE God stories from Google. Don't forget to rate review and follow this podcast. This is Clyde saying bye for now follow me on Instagram at Clyde D'souza author or buy my book Susie got the gun out of contentment for more gold stories, recipes and a whole lot more. This podcast is brought to you by bound a company that helps you grow through stories faster than at bound India on all social platforms for updates on this podcast or take a look at their other podcasts Maga Su and see you soon